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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:57 pm 
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My Friend, Mr. ADM 1...

I can almost see you gritting your teeth and pondering when you are going to lock this thread.

pu*sy and politics never has and never will mix well... especially in this " Gotta Ya ", Chicago style political atmosphere the EEUU has dropped into in past decade.

I do ask that after you lock this thread down, it be archived and Saved as a read only option.

It will be very interesting to look back in 5 to 6 years when the REALITY of what is about to hit become apparent to all.

Kind of like the pesky video tapes that keep popping up on the internet.... " I voted for/ and /or/against this or that because... bla bla bla...

We have all heard about how everyone was lied to about WMD, but those pesky videos keep popping up about " I made an independent Investigation" before I voted...

OK enough... we all know the score... no body's mind will be changed here and the fix is already in .

Lets just have some personal responsibility and accountability and keep the thread archived so we know what was actually said... in 5 or 6 years...

Peace Brothers...

PIDD

ps.. for the record.. I have Socialized medicine here in CR and have and will continue to use both the public & private system here. I just hope I can "offset" the coming EEUU medical taxes with my CR payments... bottom line... it is and will always be about the plata...

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Last edited by Pidd on Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:03 am 
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Location: NFM--Geezers, cowpokes and the working poor--yeeha!
...And how many of those doctors that the NEJM (one of the more respected peer-reviewed medical journals) polled had read the actualities of the proposed Bill...and can think far enough ahead to realize what it's ultimate realization would be? Talk about a knee-jerk reaction! What hard-core unfiltered information were these doctors getting. And not for nothing, but if they leave the profession, what are their projected job choices? Have all the ones that leave the profession paid all their college debts (in other words do the ones saying "I'm outa here" skew towards the older age of the profession?

PS--A big kudos to Pidd for asking a crucial question--"What will all this look like from 5 years on--in 2015?" Have we been saved from total fiscal disaster or yet another squandered opportunity for genuine betterment? I'm smart enough to not speculate on the answer, but that's why I read journalists but believe historians--there's still unanswered questions about the whys and wherefors of WW I.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:35 am 
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$972 Billion--that is the accumulated costs of the 2 misbegotten wars in Iraq and much of the war in Afghanistan (which we had won in 2001 but given back, necessitating the sacrifice of blood and money in this present venture).
http://costofwar.com
I am not reflexively anti-war--but when we commit lives, it better have meaning and an identifiable end point.
Relevance here? You can buy a Phuck of a lot of health care/ medical care even with our presently skewed values for that kind of money.
Talking about monopolies, Google "% of health plans covered by one company by state"--and these companies unlike Federal offices are totally unaccountable to anyone except their execs and supine board of directors. They are the ones running death panels with denial of service/ pre-existing condition mandates--and again answerable to no one.

Correction: That cost of war figure does not count the first Gulf War, in which we also had extremely sketchy reasons to engage--(Persia) (Mesopotamia) Iraq had good historical claims to present-day Kuwait ( a political fiction if there ever was one). Iraq was the region's only credible counter-force to Iran--which will be a serious long-term problem...And we effectively neutered that counter-force. Oh well...It's y'alls sons and daughters that will be paying a price for those decisions.
:Pick your enemies carefully...because you will come to resemble them". Witness the Red-scares of the '50's when the US adopted many of the postures and programs of our putative enemy. History does tend to repeat itself and run in cycles.
The alleged loss of freedom with ObamaCare should be the least of your worries when it comes to loss of liberty--look up the Alien & Sedition Act or the Palmer Raids in the '20's. Y'all are looking the wrong way and most def' fighting the wrong battles.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:31 am 
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I agree with Pidd:

But it was fun while it lasted and somewhat revealing. Time for this old fart to disappear again. My best to all of you and wishing you good health and fun / safe travels.

Circus has left the building. Adios.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:34 am 
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JazzboCR wrote:
...And how

Now that was unabashedly political.

Do the right thing Jazzbo, and edit that out.
We are trying to keep this thread running.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:12 am 
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Gringotim wrote:
NYG wrote:


That is why Doctors and Nurses are for this bill. It’s not perfect but it’s a least a start to help are patients and help ourselves teat them.

NYG


Well, today the New England Journal of Medicine released the results of a survey they took, and 46% of the doctors surveyed said they would LEAVE THE PROFESSION if the bill passed. Talk about rationing!


I am looking at my last issue and email from NEJM. What page is that poll on?

NYG

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:16 am 
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Pidd wrote:
My Friend, Mr. ADM 1...

I can almost see you gritting your teeth and pondering when you are going to lock this thread.

pu*sy and politics never has and never will mix well... especially in this " Gotta Ya ", Chicago style political atmosphere the EEUU has dropped into in past decade.

I do ask that after you lock this thread down, it be archived and Saved as a read only option.

It will be very interesting to look back in 5 to 6 years when the REALITY of what is about to hit become apparent to all.

Kind of like the pesky video tapes that keep popping up on the internet.... " I voted for/ and /or/against this or that because... bla bla bla...

We have all heard about how everyone was lied to about WMD, but those pesky videos keep popping up about " I made an independent Investigation" before I voted...

OK enough... we all know the score... no body's mind will be changed here and the fix is already in .

Lets just have some personal responsibility and accountability and keep the thread archived so we know what was actually said... in 5 or 6 years...

Peace Brothers...

PIDD

ps.. for the record.. I have Socialized medicine here in CR and have and will continue to use both the public & private system here. I just hope I can "offset" the coming EEUU medical taxes with my CR payments... bottom line... it is and will always be about the plata...


They should lock you down :evil:

Why are you trying to put your law down on the rest of us. I do believe alot of us have learned somethings they may not have known about this debate.

NYG

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Last edited by NYG on Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:21 am 
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NYG wrote:
.... I do belive alot of us have learned somethings they may not have known about this debate.

NYG

Yes.
We have learned there is a very large divide in our membership (and the USA).
And that a very large percentage are unimpressed with the other sides arguments.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:26 am 
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I do know that they fought against slavery, voting rights for women and blacks. Fought against Civil rights, social security, medicare and medicaid. Each time one of these things passed it made our country stronger.

None of you can refute that :!: :!: :!:

I think we are at the same moment. People will fight against lose and then see we are better as a people and nation for it

Circus I know you have a problem with your President but you had a problem with Clinton too. Except the part about him getting a CIMBJ in the Oval Office :lol:
You must admit Obama is doing what he ran on for the most part. And he won by 9.5 million votes. People on the left think he is not going far enough but they were not listening to him. People on the right think he is going to far. That is why we have elections.


NYG

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:39 pm 
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I believe I was commenting on recent history and economics, not the politics that shapes them. My Posts stand as written.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:55 pm 
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Quote:
They should lock you down

Why are you trying to put your law down on the rest of us. I do believe alot of us have learned somethings they may not have known about this debate.

NYG


Well... I guess I've been put in my place... :shock:

Another example of Transparency ? Don't Know... I'm too StuPidd to figure that out... :roll:

Reminds me of the 1960's Steppenwolf song " Ostrich"

... You're free to speak you mind my friend, as long as you agree with me...



Look up the full lyrics on the web... still currently relevant, even if over 40 years old..

Couple minor points...

1) please READ, MY comments... and what I SAID.. I put down no "" LAW"" .. Not sure where you got that Idea :?:

I've know Tomas for a long time and... well, let's see what happens..

2) The United States was and still remains today a Constitutional Republic not a Democracy... check it out, there is a BIG difference.

3) I'll pass on this that was sent me this morning in response to my post... not my words ... but a point of view ...

Quote:
http://fredoneverything.net/Nullification.shtml

Taking the Tenth
The Last Hope
March 19, 2010
.
Washington is out of control. It does as it likes, without restraint. It spends American money and American lives to fight remote wars for which it cannot provide a plausible reason. It determines what our Ch*ldren will be taught, who we can hire and fire, to whom we can sell our houses, whether we can defend ourselves, even what names we can call each other. The feds read our email and track the web sites we visit, make us hop around barefoot in airports at the command of surly unaccountable rentacops. They search us at random in train stations without even a pretense of probable cause. We have no influence over them, no way of resisting.
Except, perhaps, to ignore them.
Washington has learned to insulate itself from interference by the population. Huge impenetrable bureaucracies beyond public control make regulations that amount to laws, spending God knows how much money to do God knows what for the benefit of the interest groups that run the government. These bureaucrats cannot be fired and usually cannot be named. Congress, like the bureaucracies, serves not the United States but the big lobbies. The looters of Wall Street wreck the lives of millions, and get millions in bonuses for doing it instead of the end of a rope.
Further, the federal government simply doesn’t work. It is clogged up, constipated, gridlocked, using antiquated technology to do badly things it ought to do and things it oughtn’t. In large part this is because federal hiring rests on the desires of racist and feminist lobbies instead of suitability for the work to be done. Whole departments—HUD, Education—do much harm and little good. IRS is ruthless, incompetent, and unaccountable, the tax laws burdensome and crafted for the benefit of special interests and of Washington. I can change my address with my bank online in five minutes and know that it has been done; IRS requires a paper form and six to eight weeks to effect the change, and you don’t know whether it has been done. The goons of TSA leer at our daughters with their porno=scanners. The VA can easily take six months to provide a veteran’s records, when it could be done online in five seconds. The Pentagon spends a trillion a year, precious little of which has anything to do with defending America, but can’t defeat a small group of badly outnumbered men armed with rifles and RPGs; the intelligence agencies were unable to warn them of the prospect.
The government doesn’t work. It is broken. It can’t be fixed. It can’t be fixed because only those within it could, and their interest lies in not fixing it.
The only remedy short of armed rebellion is civil disobedience at the level of the states. Clear constitutional justification for refusal to obey Washington lies in the Tenth Amendment:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
A great many states now begin to do a great many things counter to Washington’s wishes. I think it wise to keep resistance within the framework of the Constitution, but the entire question comes down to a blunt truth: No law extends beyond the lawmaker’s power to enforce it. Congress can pass a law against gravitation, but can’t prevent things from falling when released from a height. The federal government made alcohol illegal but, in the face of massive public disregard, couldn’t make it stick.
What happens if, as may happen, California legalizes marijuana—not just for contrived medical purposes, but legalizes it, period? I search in vain for the Marijuana Clause in the Constitution. The feds do not have the manpower to enforce federal laws within California without the help of the police of California. What happens if a state passes a law saying that its citizens cannot be forced to buy health insurance? What can Washington do? It can persecute individuals, but a state, or thirty states, are another thing. The FBI can arrest any one person, but it cannot arrest Wyoming.
Much depends on how sick people really are of the ever-growing thicket of laws, regulation, imposed political correctness, surveillance, and having to live according to the dictates of remote elites with whom they have nothing in common.
At bottom, Washington’s power is economic. The feds rely for control on taxing money from the states and giving some of it back in exchange for obedience. They cannot arrest Wyoming, but they can deny it federal highway funds. This technique provides de facto control over everything from kindergarten to MIT.
Now, if Idaho passes a law (I’m making this up) saying that no restrictions on the ownership of guns will be enforced within the state, Washington might choose discretion over valor and ignore it. Legalizing marijuana, however, or refusing to accept compulsory medical care, would be a direct if not necessarily intentional challenge to the power of the central government. The feds could not afford to let either of these things slide. The danger of the precedent to the grip of the governing classes would be too great. A deadly serious confrontation would ensue.
What could, or would, the federal government do in response to defiance? Send the Marines to occupy Sacramento? Or the FBI to arrest Arnold and the legislature of California?
Or cut off California’s financial water? No bailout for the state’s tottering economy, no more fat subsidies to the universities, and so on?
The question is how ugly might things get. Washington may be able to make the states back down. It may not. The peril for the feds is that it might occur to the states that, while they get their money from Washington, Washington gets its money from the states. The central government depends absolutely on the states, whereas the states would get along swimmingly without the current central government.
How tired are Americans of a dysfunctional, oppressive Washington, unconcerned for its citizens, unaccountable and tending fast toward the totalitarian, that sprawls across the continent like an armed leech of malign intent? That is the question. The first time a populous states says “No,” if such a state ever does, we will get the answer. The United States has been free, prosperous, and reasonably well governed for a long time. It no longer is. Things go downward, within and without.

Nothing lasts, change comes, and things break. We shall see.

Give it five years.


As I said previously... 5 or 6 years.. :!:

Ok... I'll crawl back in my hole like my amigo Circus, but suggest
everyone think about his words...very carefully.. and good luck.

Peace Brothers...

PIDD

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:09 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Pidd wrote:
The United States was and still remains today a Constitutional Republic not a Democracy... check it out, there is a BIG difference.

PIDD

+1

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:42 pm 
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+ 2 Nothing of which prevents us from striving towards democratic actions.

BTW Brothers Pidd and T&V--now who's introducing political discourse?

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"A man accustomed to hear only the echo of his own sentiments, soon bars all the common avenues of delight, and has no part in the general gratification of mankind"--Dr. Johnson
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:44 pm 
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JazzboCR wrote:
BTW Brothers Pidd and T&V--now who's introducing political discourse?

I honestly don't believe stating an undisputed fact is political.
If the Admin tells me I am in error I will retract and apologize.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:36 pm 
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Texas&Vegas wrote:
..... stating an undisputed fact.....


an exactly where in this thread do you find that? :shock:

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